tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post2366151304703138614..comments2023-09-25T07:29:56.175-07:00Comments on Brands Plus Music: Will Your 10,000 Hours Be Obsolete?John Lokenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10389687311107553577noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post-14766390596755627842011-01-24T16:02:00.898-08:002011-01-24T16:02:00.898-08:00So today it seems that Classical music is being gr...So today it seems that Classical music is being greatly de-valued; almost obsolete. Even the Churches are going Contemporary. The curriculum at colleges for music majors is geared towards improvisation and playing by chords. My question then becomes: Why would anyone have any faith in the so called"experts"? Why not just self-teach by direct work with experienced people in the field one is interested in; sort of like centuries ago when young people became apprentices.?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post-81285249370239010562010-11-20T13:33:01.537-08:002010-11-20T13:33:01.537-08:00The only thing I know of that is worthwhile to sta...The only thing I know of that is worthwhile to start early and invest that kind of training in is music. Studies in brain development keep on showing that music learned before age 7 has a number of other benefits in mental function.<br /><br />However for those benefits I don't think a concentrated 10 K hours is needed. Probably just playing a couple times a week is sufficient, either by lessons or just playing with friends and family. And if you're really good it will pay off, but for that you need, uhm, talent! ;)<br /><br />Especially in our times I agree there is no way to predict which road to head down for some final result.Ruperthttp://www.intuitionjournal.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post-83246829809291483672010-11-19T08:00:35.266-08:002010-11-19T08:00:35.266-08:00Thanks Rupert. I got interested in the concept aft...Thanks Rupert. I got interested in the concept after watching Olympic level figure skaters. This is a sport where training starts young and it's expensive. But it has also shifted in popularity in recent years. So you have a group of kids who may have embarked on this journey when figure skating was at its peak of popularity, but who now find they are highly qualified in a career that is less lucrative. So was that decision to train so long the right one looking back? Perhaps not if there was some expectation of financial reward. If, on the other hand, they were simply pursuing this for their own satisfaction, then perhaps that is satisfaction enough. The idea of suggesting that people who want to become experts need to pursue years of training implies that we know well in advance what they should be studying.Suzanne Lainsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15483602086100616975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post-12891726115937616152010-11-19T03:07:16.632-08:002010-11-19T03:07:16.632-08:00Thanks for covering this. The whole 10,000 hrs thi...Thanks for covering this. The whole 10,000 hrs thing is more confusing than clarifying. <br /><br />What would be more useful is a test that functions as a guide to know what you're best off practicing for those hours. I don't think the psych tests along those lines, aptitude and so on, are any good. <br /><br />Maybe it's impossible to tell except by trial and error, but if so then many people will end up getting errors until they are too old to accumulate the hours anymore. <br /><br />It is messy, and very much influenced by luck of genetics, family, youth, and so on. I know it's not what people want to hear but I believe luck is "it" one way or the other.Ruperthttp://www.intuitionjournal.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post-19711813222439512622010-05-23T14:56:52.858-07:002010-05-23T14:56:52.858-07:00Outliers merely popularized the concept of "1...Outliers merely popularized the concept of "10,000 hours." If you read all the research I pulled together, it has been covered by a number of people. And the idea keeps popping up in other books. I went back and tried to pin it down and what the studies have really shown.Suzanne Lainsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15483602086100616975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post-40075081547641474692010-05-18T13:34:00.309-07:002010-05-18T13:34:00.309-07:00You're way to obsessed with the "10,000 h...You're way to obsessed with the "10,000 hours" part of Outliers.<br /><br />The quotation of anomalies (pop stars, etc.) appears to be trying to refute the point of the book, as if the point of the book were that 10k hours implies mastery and success.<br /><br />Gladwell's point is that once you weed out the people who are *bad* at something, what differentiates the best from the good is the amount of time spent practicing/working. 10,000 hours is just a rule of thumb, an incidental observation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post-49250497155226800112010-04-19T06:36:16.541-07:002010-04-19T06:36:16.541-07:00"What if you put in all that time, and then t..."What if you put in all that time, and then the world has moved on? What if, when you began, everyone thought your sport or your music or your career pursuit was cool, but now it has fallen out of favor? What if you are very good at something now perceived as obsolete?"<br /><br />Kill me now...:)Art Triphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01551751489117593214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post-19656929084658080682010-04-15T07:04:30.155-07:002010-04-15T07:04:30.155-07:00Almost every youth sports organization has started...Almost every youth sports organization has started exploring the concept of Long Term Athlete Development(LTAD) and initiating some of these principles into their organizational philosophy. I guess its better late than never, as parents are investing a lot of money into their children's athletic endeavors and the kids themselves are spending huge amounts of practice time into become better athletes, so I think its important to be able to quantify and track their development over time. <br /><br />Youth sports organizations should also be accountable to their members and part of this accountability should be to "do the right thing" for the kids. 10,000 hours is a huge time commitment, so invest wisely.Bruce Turpinhttp://www.exactsports.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post-8142508259961152112010-04-13T22:20:14.765-07:002010-04-13T22:20:14.765-07:00What I think they are pointing out is that in some...What I think they are pointing out is that in some fields, you don't need a lot of training to be successful. <br /><br />Miley Cyrus is the flavor of the moment and I don't think she'll leave a significant legacy in popular music. So she isn't a good example of skill. But she has reached a significant level in her little part of the world.<br /><br />With sport and chess, there are at least some agreed upon levels of what the best might be. At any given time, the best (based on competition) tend to rise to the top.<br /><br />In entertainment, it's far more subjective. And it probably isn't even fair to compare Mozart, who composed, to a top classical performer, who "merely" interprets. In one case, it requires creating something new. In the other, it means performing exceptionally well what has already been created. <br /><br />I felt it was worthwhile to pull apart the "it takes 10,000 hours" concept so that anyone contemplating doing it would have a better sense of what that means.<br /><br />If you want to be the best tennis player in the world, you will likely put in those hours. If you want to create a lifetime body of musical work that is respected for at least decades, you will probably put in the work.<br /><br />But if you want to be at the top of the entertainment ladder for the moment, you may need to do little more than being on the right TV show.<br /><br />Let's say you want to create the best young singer/songwriter in modern history. What kind of training would you have him/her do? Listen to lots of music in a variety of genres? Write a song a week over ten years? What kind of music would likely result and who in today's musical environment do you think most fits the bill?<br /><br />In 20th century, here are a few songwriters who were both talented and prolific:<br />Lennon/McCartney<br />Dylan<br />Porter<br />Berlin<br />Gershwin<br /><br />Who is currently under 30 and has or will likely rise to that level?<br /><br />It's an interesting subject and I appreciate all of your comments.Suzanne Lainsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15483602086100616975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post-81160694068342086012010-04-13T21:23:55.248-07:002010-04-13T21:23:55.248-07:00There seems to be confusion in some of the critica...There seems to be confusion in some of the critical articles over just what that 10,000 hours gives you. Being successful does not necessarily mean that you are a virtuoso, and vice versa. Just because Miley Cyrus has a hit does not mean that she is highly skilled - just that she has a good marketing team.Kirstenhttp://www.projectarctic.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post-37106734765960816382010-04-13T20:47:06.151-07:002010-04-13T20:47:06.151-07:00Thank you. I hope I pulled a lot of stuff together...Thank you. I hope I pulled a lot of stuff together in one place for people interested in the subject. Gladwell got people talking about it, but in reality, how does the average person turn that information into practical application?<br /><br />I spent about six years in the company of Olympic level athletes (figure skaters). I saw some of the best in the world train daily. Those kids and their families invested heavily in hopes of getting to the Olympics, but the odds of getting that far are very slim. So kids and their parents have to ask themselves if all that training and the expenses that come with it are worth it to them, not knowing in advance how it will all turn out. And you also have to factor into the mix that genetics play a role. Some body types do better than others. But when kids start training at an early age, you don't always know what they will have to work with when they hit 13 - 18. Grow too little or too much and you may drop out of contention.Suzanne Lainsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15483602086100616975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post-45136491195388585532010-04-13T20:10:45.534-07:002010-04-13T20:10:45.534-07:00I really enjoyed this article, Suzanne.I really enjoyed this article, Suzanne.Glenn Galenhttp://www.reverbnation.com/GlennGalennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post-82923795686910453582010-04-13T17:33:16.700-07:002010-04-13T17:33:16.700-07:00Yes, I think that is true. If you are the first, t...Yes, I think that is true. If you are the first, there's no standard. Then with each person that comes after, you can compare to what has gone before.Suzanne Lainsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15483602086100616975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7057268567118204094.post-15338541626904266972010-04-13T16:45:44.975-07:002010-04-13T16:45:44.975-07:00If we're to look at the issue from a different...If we're to look at the issue from a different perspective, some contradictions become less daunting.<br /><br />I believe that we should not ignore the external context: if you are doing something that hasn't been done before, it doesn't matter, terribly, if you're doing it badly.<br /><br />The novelty of experimentation (if the results catch on) is usually enough to satisfy the initial recepients. The very fact that the Doors had "invented a new kind of rock" meant that they didn't have to reach any pre-conceived standard. What they did was the best you could get, because nobody else was doing it.<br /><br />It's a pertinent subject as the Web evolves - as new vistas open, the minimum time needed to master the field will be determined by how much time everyone else is putting in. After certain skill sets solidify and certain levels of mastery are achieved by those who've been there from the start, it will likely start approaching the aforementioned 10,000 hour figure.Krzysztof Wiszniewskihttp://thecynicalmusician.comnoreply@blogger.com